Weekly development meetings on IRC
22 messages, 18 to 22 Sep 2015. Started by Wladimir J. van der Laan.
Matt Corallo (4), Wladimir J. van der Laan (3), Luke Dashjr (3), Btc Drak (2), Alex Morcos, Peter Todd, Mark F, Jonas Schnelli, +6 more
Hello,
At Monday's code sprint we had a good idea to schedule a regular developer meeting in #bitcoin-dev.
Attendance is of course voluntary, but it may be good to have a time that many people are expected to be present and current issues can be discussed.
Any preference for days/times?
What about e.g. every week 15:00-16:00 UTC on Thursday?
Wladimir
+1 sounds good to me!
On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 9:07 PM, Wladimir J. van der Laan via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation•org> wrote:
Quoted text (18 lines)
> Hello, > > At Monday's code sprint we had a good idea to schedule a regular developer > meeting in #bitcoin-dev. > > Attendance is of course voluntary, but it may be good to have a time that > many people are expected to be present and current issues can be discussed. > > Any preference for days/times? > > What about e.g. every week 15:00-16:00 UTC on Thursday? > > Wladimir > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation•org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev >
On 17 September 2015 19:56:17 GMT-07:00, Alex Morcos via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation•org> wrote:
Quoted text (2 lines)
>+1 >sounds good to me!
+2
My schedule is chaotic, but I'll try to attend.
I am unlikely to attend at that time, but there is no time that will fit everybody's schedules. I approve of the idea and look forward to reading the logs.
On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 9:07 PM, Wladimir J. van der Laan via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation•org> wrote:
Quoted text (18 lines)
> Hello, > > At Monday's code sprint we had a good idea to schedule a regular developer > meeting in #bitcoin-dev. > > Attendance is of course voluntary, but it may be good to have a time that > many people are expected to be present and current issues can be discussed. > > Any preference for days/times? > > What about e.g. every week 15:00-16:00 UTC on Thursday? > > Wladimir > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation•org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev >
On Friday, September 18, 2015 1:07:10 AM Wladimir J. van der Laan via bitcoin-dev wrote:
Quoted text (6 lines)
> At Monday's code sprint we had a good idea to schedule a regular developer > meeting in #bitcoin-dev. > > Attendance is of course voluntary, but it may be good to have a time that > many people are expected to be present and current issues can be > discussed.
I think it's important to make a point that these meetings are for discussions, and explicitly never decisions, to avoid a repeat of the P2SH events when people have to miss it.
Quoted text (3 lines)
> Any preference for days/times? > > What about e.g. every week 15:00-16:00 UTC on Thursday?
I think I would prefer a bit later, but I could probably make this work. Probably should try to make it more practical for California devs though, since there are a number of them.
Luke
Quoted text (16 lines)
> On Friday, September 18, 2015 1:07:10 AM Wladimir J. van der Laan > via bitcoin-dev wrote: >> At Monday's code sprint we had a good idea to schedule a regular >> developer meeting in #bitcoin-dev. >> >> Attendance is of course voluntary, but it may be good to have a >> time that many people are expected to be present and current >> issues can be discussed. > > I think it's important to make a point that these meetings are for > discussions, and explicitly never decisions, to avoid a repeat of > the P2SH events when people have to miss it. > >> Any preference for days/times? >> >> What about e.g. every week 15:00-16:00 UTC on Thursday?
+1 for the weekly IRC meetings.
For time and date maybe a Doodle could help: http://doodle.com/poll/cihug53sa8u4h2in#table
- --- jonas
I love the weekly meeting idea...but timezones might be an issue.
My general preference would be afternoons to late evenings pacific time, but that translates to late night/early morning for those in europe.
On September 18, 2015 12:04:58 AM PDT, Jonas Schnelli via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation•org> wrote:
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>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA256 > >> On Friday, September 18, 2015 1:07:10 AM Wladimir J. van der Laan >> via bitcoin-dev wrote: >>> At Monday's code sprint we had a good idea to schedule a regular >>> developer meeting in #bitcoin-dev. >>> >>> Attendance is of course voluntary, but it may be good to have a >>> time that many people are expected to be present and current >>> issues can be discussed. >> >> I think it's important to make a point that these meetings are for >> discussions, and explicitly never decisions, to avoid a repeat of >> the P2SH events when people have to miss it. >> >>> Any preference for days/times? >>> >>> What about e.g. every week 15:00-16:00 UTC on Thursday? > >+1 for the weekly IRC meetings. > >For time and date maybe a Doodle could help: >http://doodle.com/poll/cihug53sa8u4h2in#table > > >- --- >jonas >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >Version: GnuPG v2 > >iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJV+7eaAAoJECnUvLZBb1PsESgQAIQnHDe7owv3OzMvxwupzGaD >IkTsRtCTSntIb75Wb/KYc0y1L3ilSENRTfZ4nNc4QquqTstkhjU5t+u9T3Mak4D3 >2/5AOiJhV6OLYav1SC7uSJh0B4halnZlTwclU7NOvmnkg40DUpNxmEbf+RvUZup3 >J0EQFxIuhtjIz0HfZTvw6wmstrP3+UJZTbM5fg0FO3TpgmGybAUoQ3eWgRa7v/gR >OUxnAV//Mus2O80/Z+c5KycZ1Dqc/iN7cQsQFt7kEIK0epkJhkTjoRrW9MyQW04d >1jv7d0mjEJt+2EiC8UuwpaW2eFmeFnGR0pL4UCY1QsDzGENyHKNbrVg26v1AzIbB >SNEYN1+fmsXQYosY5t0Z887Ij+u4/GLHciimh5z7fbI5VB1Ng6Wl84maVmP5Zb3L >MHtkIqQ00RX7GIXUp5+u7eKOO0pH9S08tqo5Ag6ceynJ2lh4Wr8BCNghHzH+ybNJ >NG3BaSkQmjxnWjW3XplaYyxz6E4qJ8id7qH4s0iaNKchAfXiCaBtbcMfljlyBSn/ >UbzHJk5jlWZEVpxmiMRctFxusk6GI4P+0eRTJrkffskLEjImUN93A8hOLs5Dy+gI >mm/PZKT2S2qKKa6dlI2kpyPZuRbN7+WSi/FwI0YsUDGl+IoDSqTX7WqRY8cY40ji >rUgzYTw3Won3BcjHTe9y >=JsXj >-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >_______________________________________________ >bitcoin-dev mailing list >bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation•org >https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
Generally in favor, but for practical purposes can we select a timezone that is available in Google Calendar? It appears it does not directly support UTC...
On 09/18/15 01:07, Wladimir J. van der Laan via bitcoin-dev wrote:
Quoted text (16 lines)
> Hello, > > At Monday's code sprint we had a good idea to schedule a regular developer meeting in #bitcoin-dev. > > Attendance is of course voluntary, but it may be good to have a time that many people are expected to be present and current issues can be discussed. > > Any preference for days/times? > > What about e.g. every week 15:00-16:00 UTC on Thursday? > > Wladimir > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation•org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev >
Google calendar is localised, so it doesn't matter. The problem with quoting UTC anyway it the meeting times are going to change for those that observe DST. It would be much better to quote an actual timezone of an actual area so it will remain constant, like 1700 CEST, or 0900AM PDT for example. Otherwise when the clocks change, what was a convenient meeting time will become inconvenient for some.
On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 9:14 PM, Matt Corallo via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation•org> wrote:
Quoted text (29 lines)
> Generally in favor, but for practical purposes can we select a timezone > that is available in Google Calendar? It appears it does not directly > support UTC... > > On 09/18/15 01:07, Wladimir J. van der Laan via bitcoin-dev wrote: > > Hello, > > > > At Monday's code sprint we had a good idea to schedule a regular > developer meeting in #bitcoin-dev. > > > > Attendance is of course voluntary, but it may be good to have a time > that many people are expected to be present and current issues can be > discussed. > > > > Any preference for days/times? > > > > What about e.g. every week 15:00-16:00 UTC on Thursday? > > > > Wladimir > > _______________________________________________ > > bitcoin-dev mailing list > > bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation•org > > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > > > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation•org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev >
Google Calendar is localized, but has an option to change the timezone of an event, it just doesnt have UTC in its options. So, yes, we should use something that observes DST in roughly the same way as everyone else - CEST/PDT/EST/etc.
On 09/18/15 20:24, Btc Drak wrote:
Quoted text (43 lines)
> Google calendar is localised, so it doesn't matter. The problem with > quoting UTC anyway it the meeting times are going to change for those > that observe DST. It would be much better to quote an actual timezone of > an actual area so it will remain constant, like 1700 CEST, or 0900AM PDT > for example. Otherwise when the clocks change, what was a convenient > meeting time will become inconvenient for some. > > On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 9:14 PM, Matt Corallo via bitcoin-dev > <bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation•org > <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>> wrote: > > Generally in favor, but for practical purposes can we select a timezone > that is available in Google Calendar? It appears it does not directly > support UTC... > > On 09/18/15 01:07, Wladimir J. van der Laan via bitcoin-dev wrote: > > Hello, > > > > At Monday's code sprint we had a good idea to schedule a regular > developer meeting in #bitcoin-dev. > > > > Attendance is of course voluntary, but it may be good to have a > time that many people are expected to be present and current issues > can be discussed. > > > > Any preference for days/times? > > > > What about e.g. every week 15:00-16:00 UTC on Thursday? > > > > Wladimir > > _______________________________________________ > > bitcoin-dev mailing list > > bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation•org > <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> > > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > > > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation•org > <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > >
Quoted text (6 lines)
> On 18 Sep 2015, at 22:27, Matt Corallo via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation•org> wrote: > > Google Calendar is localized, but has an option to change the timezone > of an event, it just doesnt have UTC in its options. So, yes, we should > use something that observes DST in roughly the same way as everyone else > - CEST/PDT/EST/etc.
According to this post, it is possible to configure Google Calendar to show an additional time zone to your localized one, and GMT/UTC is indeed in the list.
https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/calendar/y6uaiAdZrIg
-jp
On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 8:27 PM, Matt Corallo via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation•org> wrote:
Quoted text (4 lines)
> Google Calendar is localized, but has an option to change the timezone > of an event, it just doesnt have UTC in its options. So, yes, we should > use something that observes DST in roughly the same way as everyone else > - CEST/PDT/EST/etc.
uh. There is fairly little global consistency in DST usage. Lots of places do dst on different dates.
So if it's in some DST timezone it's likely to move twice each change for some subset of the people who do it.
E.g. europe and US end DST one week apart.
I believe that is out of date. I see neither UTC nor GMT on the website nor on Android.
Matt
On September 18, 2015 4:30:23 PM EDT, Jeffrey Paul <jp@eeqj•com> wrote:
Quoted text (25 lines)
> >> On 18 Sep 2015, at 22:27, Matt Corallo via bitcoin-dev ><bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation•org> wrote: >> >> Google Calendar is localized, but has an option to change the >timezone >> of an event, it just doesnt have UTC in its options. So, yes, we >should >> use something that observes DST in roughly the same way as everyone >else >> - CEST/PDT/EST/etc. > >According to this post, it is possible to configure Google Calendar to >show an additional time zone to your localized one, and GMT/UTC is >indeed in the list. > > https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/calendar/y6uaiAdZrIg > >-jp > >-- >Jeffrey Paul EEQJ >jp@eeqj•com https://eeqj.com >+1-800-403-1126 (America) +1-312-361-0355 (Worldwide) >5539 AD00 DE4C 42F3 AFE1 1575 0524 43F4 DF2A 55C2
Urgh... Can we hardfork time? It's clearly in need of an upgrade...
On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 9:31 PM, Gregory Maxwell <gmaxwell@gmail•com> wrote:
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> On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 8:27 PM, Matt Corallo via bitcoin-dev > <bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation•org> wrote: > > Google Calendar is localized, but has an option to change the timezone > > of an event, it just doesnt have UTC in its options. So, yes, we should > > use something that observes DST in roughly the same way as everyone else > > - CEST/PDT/EST/etc. > > uh. There is fairly little global consistency in DST usage. Lots of > places do dst on different dates. > > So if it's in some DST timezone it's likely to move twice each change > for some subset of the people who do it. > > E.g. europe and US end DST one week apart. >
Yes, I'm aware, however they are closer to each other than UTC is to either :p.
On September 18, 2015 4:31:28 PM EDT, Gregory Maxwell <gmaxwell@gmail•com> wrote:
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>On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 8:27 PM, Matt Corallo via bitcoin-dev ><bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation•org> wrote: >> Google Calendar is localized, but has an option to change the >timezone >> of an event, it just doesnt have UTC in its options. So, yes, we >should >> use something that observes DST in roughly the same way as everyone >else >> - CEST/PDT/EST/etc. > >uh. There is fairly little global consistency in DST usage. Lots of >places do dst on different dates. > >So if it's in some DST timezone it's likely to move twice each change >for some subset of the people who do it. > >E.g. europe and US end DST one week apart.
On Friday, September 18, 2015 8:24:50 PM Btc Drak via bitcoin-dev wrote:
Quoted text (6 lines)
> Google calendar is localised, so it doesn't matter. The problem with > quoting UTC anyway it the meeting times are going to change for those that > observe DST. It would be much better to quote an actual timezone of an > actual area so it will remain constant, like 1700 CEST, or 0900AM PDT for > example. Otherwise when the clocks change, what was a convenient meeting > time will become inconvenient for some.
Not everyone does crazy clock-changing. Using such a time system for scheduling seems to inconvenience the wrong position. (although perhaps arguably better since most people probably use DST) :p
(Aside, if Google Calendar can't support standard UTC, that sounds like an argument against using Google Calendar...)
Quoted text (1 line)
> Urgh... Can we hardfork time? It's clearly in need of an upgrade...
Tonal time works nice any consistently. :D
Luke
On Friday, September 18, 2015 8:24:50 PM Btc Drak via bitcoin-dev wrote:
Quoted text (6 lines)
> Google calendar is localised, so it doesn't matter. The problem with > quoting UTC anyway it the meeting times are going to change for those that > observe DST. It would be much better to quote an actual timezone of an > actual area so it will remain constant, like 1700 CEST, or 0900AM PDT for > example. Otherwise when the clocks change, what was a convenient meeting > time will become inconvenient for some.
Not everyone does crazy clock-changing. Using such a time system for scheduling seems to inconvenience the wrong position. (although perhaps arguably better since most people probably use DST) :p
(Aside, if Google Calendar can't support standard UTC, that sounds like an argument against using Google Calendar...)
Quoted text (1 line)
> Urgh... Can we hardfork time? It's clearly in need of an upgrade...
Tonal time works nice and consistently. :D
Luke
I am in a timezone that uses DST (currently PDT), but I would like us to use a timezone that does NOT use DST. It will be nice to have something that reflects the seasonal patterns like my own body does. I hate the time change in both ways.
On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 2:50 PM, Luke Dashjr via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation•org> wrote:
Quoted text (26 lines)
> On Friday, September 18, 2015 8:24:50 PM Btc Drak via bitcoin-dev wrote: > > Google calendar is localised, so it doesn't matter. The problem with > > quoting UTC anyway it the meeting times are going to change for those > that > > observe DST. It would be much better to quote an actual timezone of an > > actual area so it will remain constant, like 1700 CEST, or 0900AM PDT for > > example. Otherwise when the clocks change, what was a convenient meeting > > time will become inconvenient for some. > > Not everyone does crazy clock-changing. Using such a time system for > scheduling seems to inconvenience the wrong position. (although perhaps > arguably better since most people probably use DST) :p > > (Aside, if Google Calendar can't support standard UTC, that sounds like an > argument against using Google Calendar...) > > > Urgh... Can we hardfork time? It's clearly in need of an upgrade... > > Tonal time works nice any consistently. :D > > Luke > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation•org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev >
It is possible to softfork. Just use Iceland time. Iceland time = UTC without DST
Btc Drak via bitcoin-dev 於 2015-09-18 16:34 寫到:
Quoted text (29 lines)
> Urgh... Can we hardfork time? It's clearly in need of an upgrade... > > On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 9:31 PM, Gregory Maxwell <gmaxwell@gmail•com> > wrote: > >> On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 8:27 PM, Matt Corallo via bitcoin-dev >> <bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation•org> wrote: >>> Google Calendar is localized, but has an option to change the >> timezone >>> of an event, it just doesnt have UTC in its options. So, yes, we >> should >>> use something that observes DST in roughly the same way as >> everyone else >>> - CEST/PDT/EST/etc. >> >> uh. There is fairly little global consistency in DST usage. Lots of >> places do dst on different dates. >> >> So if it's in some DST timezone it's likely to move twice each >> change >> for some subset of the people who do it. >> >> E.g. europe and US end DST one week apart. > > > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation•org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 03:07:10AM +0200, Wladimir J. van der Laan wrote:
Quoted text (9 lines)
> Hello, > > At Monday's code sprint we had a good idea to schedule a regular developer meeting in #bitcoin-dev. > > Attendance is of course voluntary, but it may be good to have a time that many people are expected to be present and current issues can be discussed. > > Any preference for days/times? > > What about e.g. every week 15:00-16:00 UTC on Thursday?
From Jonasschnelli's doodle ( http://doodle.com/poll/cihug53sa8u4h2in#table ) it appears that Thursday 19:00 UTC - 20:00 UTC is the most popular time.
I think scheduling the meeting in UTC (=Iceland time) makes sense internationally because different locales have different DST or no DST at all, so all in all that makes it more complex. It's true that this can make a convenient time less convenient half of the year, for some people, but I don't think there's a time that works for everyone anyway...
Wladimir
Although the planning for this a bit far along now, one consideration I might add from experience on working with other transglobal IT projects is the effect of timezones on local mood/alertness/awareness etc. The guys at 9am pinging on their first coffee in the antipodes will be in a different mindset than those at 21:00 in Europe, and this is unavoidable. What is possible is to schedule the meeting every other week at a time that is better for the "other" half, whoever that might be. This comes at the cost of not having an exactly same time set every week.
On Mon, 2015-09-21 at 15:29 +0200, Wladimir J. van der Laan via bitcoin-dev wrote:
Quoted text (20 lines)
> On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 03:07:10AM +0200, Wladimir J. van der Laan wrote: > > Hello, > > > > At Monday's code sprint we had a good idea to schedule a regular developer meeting in #bitcoin-dev. > > > > Attendance is of course voluntary, but it may be good to have a time that many people are expected to be present and current issues can be discussed. > > > > Any preference for days/times? > > > > What about e.g. every week 15:00-16:00 UTC on Thursday? > > From Jonasschnelli's doodle ( http://doodle.com/poll/cihug53sa8u4h2in#table ) it appears that Thursday 19:00 UTC - 20:00 UTC is the most popular time. > > I think scheduling the meeting in UTC (=Iceland time) makes sense internationally because different locales have different DST or no DST at all, so all in all that makes it more complex. It's true that this can make a convenient time less convenient half of the year, for some people, but I don't think there's a time that works for everyone anyway... > > Wladimir > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation•org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at 03:51:29PM +0200, gb wrote:
Quoted text (3 lines)
> > Although the planning for this a bit far along now, one consideration I > might add from experience on working with other transglobal IT projects
Nah, we can always change the scheduling later... But let's first try it out with one time.
W