Proposed BIP editor: Kalle Alm

7 messages, 24 to 30 Apr 2021. Started by Greg Maxwell.

Greg Maxwell, Matt Corallo, David A. Harding, Jaime Caring, Amir Taaki, Undiscussed Horrific Abuse, One Victim of Many, Jameson Lopp

The BIP process

Permalink Original thread on gnusha.org

Greg Maxwell 24 Apr 2021, 04:42 UTC permalink original

I am opposed to the addition of Kalle Alm at this time.

Those who believe that adding him will resolve the situation with Luke-jr's inappropriate behavior re: PR1104 are mistaken.

27e59ffd51ee5a95d0e0faff70e045faca10b00015e90abc1c8de48b1dfff40c

Matt Corallo 24 Apr 2021, 14:45 UTC in reply to Greg Maxwell permalink original

What is preventing the BIP maintainership role from moving to a bot? It does seem like a bot should be able to do a fine job given the explicit criteria (though ignoring obvious spam is often nice, its by no means a requirement).

Given recent events where humans have....acted like humans, it seems a move to a bot may be warranted.

Matt

On 4/24/21 00:42, Greg Maxwell via bitcoin-dev wrote:

Quoted text (13 lines)

> I am opposed to the addition of Kalle Alm at this time.
>
> Those who believe that adding him will resolve the situation with
> Luke-jr's inappropriate behavior re: PR1104 are mistaken.
>
>
>
> 27e59ffd51ee5a95d0e0faff70e045faca10b00015e90abc1c8de48b1dfff40c
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation•org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>

David A. Harding 26 Apr 2021, 00:36 UTC in reply to Greg Maxwell permalink original

On Sat, Apr 24, 2021 at 04:42:12AM +0000, Greg Maxwell via bitcoin-dev wrote:

Quoted text (3 lines)

> I am opposed to the addition of Kalle Alm at this time.  Those who
> believe [this] will resolve the situation [...] re: PR1104 are
> mistaken.

PR1104 has been merged. Do you continue to oppose the addition?

Thanks,

-Dave

Jaime Caring 27 Apr 2021, 22:30 UTC in reply to David A. Harding permalink original

Kalle should not be made an editor by an ad-hoc process. I reiterate Greg's NACK.

I propose that we form a stewardship committee of frequent contributors, including you, Greg, and 21 others. The stewards appoint a small set of editors with permanent oversight by the stewards. A defined process prevents this controversy from arising in the future and makes proceedings clear.

My proposal has been moderated off of this list, but may be viewed here: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1113

I care not for the role of initial transitory editor. I would be pleased should any responsible community member shoulder this onus in my stead.

Peace be upon you,

On Mon, 26 Apr 2021 at 00:37, David A. Harding via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation•org> wrote:

Quoted text (16 lines)

> On Sat, Apr 24, 2021 at 04:42:12AM +0000, Greg Maxwell via bitcoin-dev
> wrote:
> > I am opposed to the addition of Kalle Alm at this time.  Those who
> > believe [this] will resolve the situation [...] re: PR1104 are
> > mistaken.
>
> PR1104 has been merged.  Do you continue to oppose the addition?
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Dave
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation•org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>

Amir Taaki 28 Apr 2021, 09:52 UTC in reply to Jaime Caring permalink original

A committee to guide the committee? You guys truly have lost the plot.

All the good minds and cryptographers have left Bitcoin. What remains is an empty echo chamber.

Truth is these problems start with lack of vision and long-term roadmap, not with the processes themselves.

And the Bitcoin Core monopoly created this situation; one coin, one client, one vision. And the inevitable infighting for ultimate power.

Really if we want to go down this route, there should be a long period of self reflection about where the problems began rather than patching some process and moving on.

I propose Bitcoin Core is dissolved as the official Bitcoin project. The community is free to elect their preferred version of Bitcoin. And most importantly, Bitcoin developers commit to a fully specced standard that all implementations move towards using.

On 4/28/21 12:30 AM, Jaime Caring via bitcoin-dev wrote:

Quoted text (48 lines)

> Kalle should not be made an editor by an ad-hoc process. I reiterate
> Greg's NACK.
>
> I propose that we form a stewardship committee of frequent contributors,
> including you, Greg, and 21 others. The stewards appoint a small set of
> editors with permanent oversight by the stewards. A defined process
> prevents this controversy from arising in the future and makes
> proceedings clear.
>
> My proposal has been moderated off of this list, but may be viewed here:
> https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1113
> <https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1113>
>
> I care not for the role of initial transitory editor. I would be pleased
> should any responsible community member shoulder this onus in my stead.
>
> Peace be upon you,
>
> JC
>
> On Mon, 26 Apr 2021 at 00:37, David A. Harding via bitcoin-dev
> <bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation•org
> <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>> wrote:
>
>     On Sat, Apr 24, 2021 at 04:42:12AM +0000, Greg Maxwell via
>     bitcoin-dev wrote:
>     > I am opposed to the addition of Kalle Alm at this time.  Those who
>     > believe [this] will resolve the situation [...] re: PR1104 are
>     > mistaken.
>
>     PR1104 has been merged.  Do you continue to oppose the addition?
>
>     Thanks,
>
>     -Dave
>     _______________________________________________
>     bitcoin-dev mailing list
>     bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation•org
>     <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
>     https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>     <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation•org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>

Undiscussed Horrific Abuse, One Victim of Many 30 Apr 2021, 15:39 UTC in reply to Amir Taaki permalink original

A good solution here is to make it clear to visitors that facilitation, mediation, and organisation help is badly needed in the core development team.

People with such expertise can even be hired directly.

A good facilitator opens communication paths between all parties, leaving everyone satisfied with decisions. Don't accept a compromise if you can look for something better.

On Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 8:00 AM Amir Taaki via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation•org> wrote:

Quoted text (74 lines)

> A committee to guide the committee? You guys truly have lost the plot.
>
> All the good minds and cryptographers have left Bitcoin. What remains is
> an empty echo chamber.
>
> Truth is these problems start with lack of vision and long-term roadmap,
> not with the processes themselves.
>
> And the Bitcoin Core monopoly created this situation; one coin, one
> client, one vision. And the inevitable infighting for ultimate power.
>
> Really if we want to go down this route, there should be a long period
> of self reflection about where the problems began rather than patching
> some process and moving on.
>
> I propose Bitcoin Core is dissolved as the official Bitcoin project. The
> community is free to elect their preferred version of Bitcoin. And most
> importantly, Bitcoin developers commit to a fully specced standard that
> all implementations move towards using.
>
> On 4/28/21 12:30 AM, Jaime Caring via bitcoin-dev wrote:
> > Kalle should not be made an editor by an ad-hoc process. I reiterate
> > Greg's NACK.
> >
> > I propose that we form a stewardship committee of frequent contributors,
> > including you, Greg, and 21 others. The stewards appoint a small set of
> > editors with permanent oversight by the stewards. A defined process
> > prevents this controversy from arising in the future and makes
> > proceedings clear.
> >
> > My proposal has been moderated off of this list, but may be viewed here:
> > https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1113
> > <https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1113>
> >
> > I care not for the role of initial transitory editor. I would be pleased
> > should any responsible community member shoulder this onus in my stead.
> >
> > Peace be upon you,
> >
> > JC
> >
> > On Mon, 26 Apr 2021 at 00:37, David A. Harding via bitcoin-dev
> > <bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation•org
> > <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>> wrote:
> >
> >     On Sat, Apr 24, 2021 at 04:42:12AM +0000, Greg Maxwell via
> >     bitcoin-dev wrote:
> >     > I am opposed to the addition of Kalle Alm at this time.  Those who
> >     > believe [this] will resolve the situation [...] re: PR1104 are
> >     > mistaken.
> >
> >     PR1104 has been merged.  Do you continue to oppose the addition?
> >
> >     Thanks,
> >
> >     -Dave
> >     _______________________________________________
> >     bitcoin-dev mailing list
> >     bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation•org
> >     <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
> >     https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
> >     <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > bitcoin-dev mailing list
> > bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation•org
> > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
> >
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation•org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>

Jameson Lopp 30 Apr 2021, 16:58 UTC in reply to Amir Taaki permalink original

On Fri, Apr 30, 2021 at 7:59 AM Amir Taaki via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation•org> wrote:

Quoted text (16 lines)

> A committee to guide the committee? You guys truly have lost the plot.
>
> All the good minds and cryptographers have left Bitcoin. What remains is
> an empty echo chamber.
>
> Truth is these problems start with lack of vision and long-term roadmap,
> not with the processes themselves.
>
> And the Bitcoin Core monopoly created this situation; one coin, one
> client, one vision. And the inevitable infighting for ultimate power.
>
> Really if we want to go down this route, there should be a long period
> of self reflection about where the problems began rather than patching
> some process and moving on.
>
> I propose Bitcoin Core is dissolved as the official Bitcoin project.

Nonsense, as it is not the official Bitcoin project. There is no such thing.

The community is free to elect their preferred version of Bitcoin.

Individuals have voted with their feet and are free to continue to do so. It's anarchy, I tell you!

Quoted text (4 lines)

> And most importantly, Bitcoin developers commit to a fully specced
> standard that
> all implementations move towards using.
>

Who decides the spec? Perhaps... a committee of some sort?

Quoted text (55 lines)

>
> On 4/28/21 12:30 AM, Jaime Caring via bitcoin-dev wrote:
> > Kalle should not be made an editor by an ad-hoc process. I reiterate
> > Greg's NACK.
> >
> > I propose that we form a stewardship committee of frequent contributors,
> > including you, Greg, and 21 others. The stewards appoint a small set of
> > editors with permanent oversight by the stewards. A defined process
> > prevents this controversy from arising in the future and makes
> > proceedings clear.
> >
> > My proposal has been moderated off of this list, but may be viewed here:
> > https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1113
> > <https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1113>
> >
> > I care not for the role of initial transitory editor. I would be pleased
> > should any responsible community member shoulder this onus in my stead.
> >
> > Peace be upon you,
> >
> > JC
> >
> > On Mon, 26 Apr 2021 at 00:37, David A. Harding via bitcoin-dev
> > <bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation•org
> > <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>> wrote:
> >
> >     On Sat, Apr 24, 2021 at 04:42:12AM +0000, Greg Maxwell via
> >     bitcoin-dev wrote:
> >     > I am opposed to the addition of Kalle Alm at this time.  Those who
> >     > believe [this] will resolve the situation [...] re: PR1104 are
> >     > mistaken.
> >
> >     PR1104 has been merged.  Do you continue to oppose the addition?
> >
> >     Thanks,
> >
> >     -Dave
> >     _______________________________________________
> >     bitcoin-dev mailing list
> >     bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation•org
> >     <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
> >     https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
> >     <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > bitcoin-dev mailing list
> > bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation•org
> > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
> >
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation•org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>