LearnBitcoin

Bitcoin Dev Archive 2022

Bitcoin Contracting Primitives WG 1st Meeting, Tuesday 15 Nov. 18:00 UTC

5 messages, 1 to 15 Nov 2022. Started by Antoine Riard.

Antoine Riard (4), alicexbt

Permalink Original thread on gnusha.org

Antoine Riard permalink original

Hi list,

After I have been asked offline the exact date when those meetings were actually starting, I'm proposing Tuesday 15th November at 18:00 UTC, i.e 2 weeks from now. Thinking about a monthly frequency for now (from my experience attending dlcspecs/lighnting specs meetings/core dev meetings in the past, weekly sounds too much, biweekly/monthly sounds better though dunno yet good frequency).

If there is an incompatibility with another public engineering meeting in the Bitcoin space, let it know. We can talk about a better schedule during the 1st session [0].

Communication venue is #bitcoin-contracting-primitives-wg on Libera Chat [1]. Feel free to lurk already and ask questions.

No consistent agenda beyond listening to every attendee their expectations, ideas, subjects of interests they would like to see happening with this new covenants/contracting primitives R&D process.

If you have been working on a contracting protocols/side-chains/rollups/other use-cases that could benefit from extended Bitcoin contracting primitives, feel free to open an issue there: https://github.com/ariard/bitcoin-contracting-primitives-wg/issues

Let it know if you have more questions or feedback.

Cheers, Antoine

[0] It would be great to have a schedule inclusive of most timezones we can, 18:00 UTC might be too early for Asian and Oceanic ones. Later, we start to be exclusive towards contributors in Eastern Europe.

[1] There have been more voices suggesting jitsi/audio-based meetings rather than IRC. It's a cool format too, though coming with trade-offs.

Antoine Riard in reply to Antoine Riard permalink original

Reminder: this is happening this _upcoming_ Tuesday.

Looking forward to the first session, listening to everyone's thoughts about what could be the scope discussed by this new community process: anyprevout, recursive covenants, introspection, new malleability flags, ZK rollups, new contracting protocols and many more ideas!

Best, Antoine

Le lun. 31 oct. 2022 à 20:47, Antoine Riard <antoine.riard@gmail•com> a écrit :

Quoted text (37 lines)
> Hi list,
>
> After I have been asked offline the exact date when those meetings were
> actually starting, I'm proposing Tuesday 15th November at 18:00 UTC, i.e 2
> weeks from now. Thinking about a monthly frequency for now (from my
> experience attending dlcspecs/lighnting specs meetings/core dev meetings in
> the past, weekly sounds too much, biweekly/monthly sounds better though
> dunno yet good frequency).
>
> If there is an incompatibility with another public engineering meeting in
> the Bitcoin space, let it know. We can talk about a better schedule during
> the 1st session [0].
>
> Communication venue is #bitcoin-contracting-primitives-wg on Libera Chat
> [1]. Feel free to lurk already and ask questions.
>
> No consistent agenda beyond listening to every attendee their
> expectations, ideas, subjects of interests they would like to see happening
> with this new covenants/contracting primitives R&D process.
>
> If you have been working on a contracting
> protocols/side-chains/rollups/other use-cases that could benefit from
> extended Bitcoin contracting primitives, feel free to open an issue there:
> https://github.com/ariard/bitcoin-contracting-primitives-wg/issues
>
> Let it know if you have more questions or feedback.
>
> Cheers,
> Antoine
>
> [0] It would be great to have a schedule inclusive of most timezones we
> can, 18:00 UTC might be too early for Asian and Oceanic ones. Later, we
> start to be exclusive towards contributors in Eastern Europe.
>
> [1] There have been more voices suggesting jitsi/audio-based meetings
> rather than IRC. It's a cool format too, though coming with trade-offs.
>
alicexbt in reply to Antoine Riard permalink original

Hi Bitcoin Developers,

Quoted text (1 line)
> Looking forward to the first session, listening to everyone's thoughts about what could be the scope discussed by this new community process: anyprevout, recursive covenants, introspection, new malleability flags, ZK rollups, new contracting protocols and many more ideas!

Wanted to add CTV: BIP-119 OP_CHECKTEMPLATEVERIFY if OP missed it. Easiest and best possible way to get covenants aka tx introspection with lot of research and development.

/dev/fd0

Sent with [Proton Mail](https://proton.me/) secure email.

------- Original Message ------- On Monday, November 14th, 2022 at 7:51 AM, Antoine Riard via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation•org> wrote:

Quoted text (27 lines)
> Reminder: this is happening this _upcoming_ Tuesday.
> Looking forward to the first session, listening to everyone's thoughts about what could be the scope discussed by this new community process: anyprevout, recursive covenants, introspection, new malleability flags, ZK rollups, new contracting protocols and many more ideas!
> Best,
> Antoine
>
> Le lun. 31 oct. 2022 à 20:47, Antoine Riard <antoine.riard@gmail•com> a écrit :
>
>> Hi list,
>>
>> After I have been asked offline the exact date when those meetings were actually starting, I'm proposing Tuesday 15th November at 18:00 UTC, i.e 2 weeks from now. Thinking about a monthly frequency for now (from my experience attending dlcspecs/lighnting specs meetings/core dev meetings in the past, weekly sounds too much, biweekly/monthly sounds better though dunno yet good frequency).
>>
>> If there is an incompatibility with another public engineering meeting in the Bitcoin space, let it know. We can talk about a better schedule during the 1st session [0].
>>
>> Communication venue is #bitcoin-contracting-primitives-wg on Libera Chat [1]. Feel free to lurk already and ask questions.
>>
>> No consistent agenda beyond listening to every attendee their expectations, ideas, subjects of interests they would like to see happening with this new covenants/contracting primitives R&D process.
>>
>> If you have been working on a contracting protocols/side-chains/rollups/other use-cases that could benefit from extended Bitcoin contracting primitives, feel free to open an issue there: https://github.com/ariard/bitcoin-contracting-primitives-wg/issues
>>
>> Let it know if you have more questions or feedback.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Antoine
>>
>> [0] It would be great to have a schedule inclusive of most timezones we can, 18:00 UTC might be too early for Asian and Oceanic ones. Later, we start to be exclusive towards contributors in Eastern Europe.
>>
>> [1] There have been more voices suggesting jitsi/audio-based meetings rather than IRC. It's a cool format too, though coming with trade-offs.
Antoine Riard in reply to Antoine Riard permalink original

Hi list,

1st meeting did happen this afternoon with like ~10 attendees, we browsed the covenant interests of everyone: state channels, universal settlement layer, transaction introspection covenants, vaults/self-custody, MATT covenants, logical label covenant like transaction inherited IDs, congestion control, DLC and few more.

One of the goal of the process suggested by one of the attendee could be to address "1) misunderstanding of the state of development and desire for some covenant-style upgrade, 2) coordinating around goals, drawbacks and overlap of different proposals and 3) helping to highlight consensus building around the goals and mechanism to achieve them".

Next meeting aims to do a 360 degree panorama of all the known consistent contracting primitives as well as the contracting protocols in an archiving effort. If you have more contracting primitives to pin, feel free to modify: https://github.com/ariard/bitcoin-contracting-primitives-wg/tree/main/primitives

Frequency schedule is for now every month, staying on the 3rd Tuesday of every month. I'll announce them on time on the mailing list.

Meetings log available here: https://github.com/ariard/bitcoin-contracting-primitives-wg/blob/main/meetings/meetings-15-11.md

If you have more suggestions to improve the process, feel free to comment.

Best, Antoine

Le lun. 31 oct. 2022 à 20:47, Antoine Riard <antoine.riard@gmail•com> a écrit :

Quoted text (37 lines)
> Hi list,
>
> After I have been asked offline the exact date when those meetings were
> actually starting, I'm proposing Tuesday 15th November at 18:00 UTC, i.e 2
> weeks from now. Thinking about a monthly frequency for now (from my
> experience attending dlcspecs/lighnting specs meetings/core dev meetings in
> the past, weekly sounds too much, biweekly/monthly sounds better though
> dunno yet good frequency).
>
> If there is an incompatibility with another public engineering meeting in
> the Bitcoin space, let it know. We can talk about a better schedule during
> the 1st session [0].
>
> Communication venue is #bitcoin-contracting-primitives-wg on Libera Chat
> [1]. Feel free to lurk already and ask questions.
>
> No consistent agenda beyond listening to every attendee their
> expectations, ideas, subjects of interests they would like to see happening
> with this new covenants/contracting primitives R&D process.
>
> If you have been working on a contracting
> protocols/side-chains/rollups/other use-cases that could benefit from
> extended Bitcoin contracting primitives, feel free to open an issue there:
> https://github.com/ariard/bitcoin-contracting-primitives-wg/issues
>
> Let it know if you have more questions or feedback.
>
> Cheers,
> Antoine
>
> [0] It would be great to have a schedule inclusive of most timezones we
> can, 18:00 UTC might be too early for Asian and Oceanic ones. Later, we
> start to be exclusive towards contributors in Eastern Europe.
>
> [1] There have been more voices suggesting jitsi/audio-based meetings
> rather than IRC. It's a cool format too, though coming with trade-offs.
>
Antoine Riard in reply to alicexbt permalink original

Hi alicexbt,

CTV is listed here: https://github.com/ariard/bitcoin-contracting-primitives-wg/tree/main/primitives as one of the primitive subject of research. Contributions are welcome.

Best, Antoine

Le mar. 15 nov. 2022 à 17:37, alicexbt <alicexbt@protonmail•com> a écrit :

Quoted text (72 lines)
> Hi Bitcoin Developers,
>
> Looking forward to the first session, listening to everyone's thoughts
> about what could be the scope discussed by this new community process:
> anyprevout, recursive covenants, introspection, new malleability flags, ZK
> rollups, new contracting protocols and many more ideas!
>
>
> Wanted to add CTV: BIP-119 OP_CHECKTEMPLATEVERIFY if OP missed it.
> Easiest and best possible way to get covenants aka tx introspection with
> lot of research and development.
>
> /dev/fd0
>
> Sent with Proton Mail <https://proton.me/> secure email.
>
> ------- Original Message -------
> On Monday, November 14th, 2022 at 7:51 AM, Antoine Riard via bitcoin-dev <
> bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation•org> wrote:
>
> Reminder: this is happening this _upcoming_ Tuesday.
>
> Looking forward to the first session, listening to everyone's thoughts
> about what could be the scope discussed by this new community process:
> anyprevout, recursive covenants, introspection, new malleability flags, ZK
> rollups, new contracting protocols and many more ideas!
>
> Best,
> Antoine
>
> Le lun. 31 oct. 2022 à 20:47, Antoine Riard <antoine.riard@gmail•com> a
> écrit :
>
>> Hi list,
>>
>> After I have been asked offline the exact date when those meetings were
>> actually starting, I'm proposing Tuesday 15th November at 18:00 UTC, i.e 2
>> weeks from now. Thinking about a monthly frequency for now (from my
>> experience attending dlcspecs/lighnting specs meetings/core dev meetings in
>> the past, weekly sounds too much, biweekly/monthly sounds better though
>> dunno yet good frequency).
>>
>> If there is an incompatibility with another public engineering meeting in
>> the Bitcoin space, let it know. We can talk about a better schedule during
>> the 1st session [0].
>>
>> Communication venue is #bitcoin-contracting-primitives-wg on Libera Chat
>> [1]. Feel free to lurk already and ask questions.
>>
>> No consistent agenda beyond listening to every attendee their
>> expectations, ideas, subjects of interests they would like to see happening
>> with this new covenants/contracting primitives R&D process.
>>
>> If you have been working on a contracting
>> protocols/side-chains/rollups/other use-cases that could benefit from
>> extended Bitcoin contracting primitives, feel free to open an issue there:
>> https://github.com/ariard/bitcoin-contracting-primitives-wg/issues
>>
>> Let it know if you have more questions or feedback.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Antoine
>>
>> [0] It would be great to have a schedule inclusive of most timezones we
>> can, 18:00 UTC might be too early for Asian and Oceanic ones. Later, we
>> start to be exclusive towards contributors in Eastern Europe.
>>
>> [1] There have been more voices suggesting jitsi/audio-based meetings
>> rather than IRC. It's a cool format too, though coming with trade-offs.
>>
>
>